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Top 100 Countdown – VILLAINS – Part 4 – #25-01

It’s time for the FINAL COUNTDOWN OF EVIL! That’s right GCRN Fans the NEXT Top 100 is here! This time we are counting down the GCRN’s Top 100 VILLAINS! We reveal the top 25 this week! So tune into Part 4 to hear which of your favorite VILLAINS ended up as the winners! And as always “UNLEASH THE GEEK IN YOU!”

Geeks

Steve “Megatron” Phillips

Kevin “OptimusSolo” Thompson

Dan “MovieRevolt” Clark

DJ Valentine

Matthew Stewart

UNLEASH THE VILLAIN IN YOU!!

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TFG1Mike

TFG1Mike is a geek with many interests. He has been podcasting for over a decade, and sees no stopping point in sight. From Transformers, He-Man, Batman, Comics, movies, video games, cartoons, and so much more, Mike has a zeal for the things he loves, and he will bring the hammer down on the things that he has a disdain for. He's generally a postive person, but negativity can creep in there. Mike is all about the innuendos and innuendon'ts too. You'll hear him on many of The GCRN podcasts!

75 Comments

  1. (Shakes head and sighs) Okay, since I’m one of the ones who didn’t have their number one choice selected, before I get ganged up on for not liking Lex Luthor or Hans Gruber, I’m gonna defend my choices here. My Top Ten on my ballot that didn’t make it.

    1. MEPHISTOPHELES-from “Dr. Faust” and he should be number one…. Okay, so to me, the X-factor in this list was literature. There wasn’t a genre that we were limited to, everything was considered, but since all literature, it’s importance in literature, as a whole, topped everything else. So I thought about, how most western literature can be traced, in some way back to Shakespeare. All the kinds, all the kinds of conflicts there are, all the narratives and plot structures, all, however many story arcs there are and everything else is a variation, and all that, but one, doesn’t. The one major western narrative, that wasn’t created or mastered by Shakespeare, is the story of the deal with the devil. The modern version of that was Christopher Marlowe, and the Faustus folklore dates earlier, but when I think back on villains, in terms of literature, the villain narrative is this one. You’re good, you make a deal, you shouldn’t have, and you will end up losing it all,in your hubris, in an effort to gain it all. So many, great characters, including many great villains, Walter White, Charles Foster Kane, who also missed this list, WTF?!, Edmund Hyde to some extent, etc. several others I’m sure, several heroes I’m sure have made this bad deal, There may not be a physical devil in many of those stories, but the arc of selling your soul, is the same narrative. If you have a tragic villain character, who could’ve or used to be the good guy, but isn’t, you can blame Mephistopheles for that, for damning them into this. I think somebody, in one of the earlier podcasts mentioned him as a joke that he might show up, but he should’ve showed up! There’s more than a couple villains on this list that owe him a debt of gratitude, for basically creating their narrative arc. He should’ve showed up and he should’ve been number one, to me.

    3. ERIC CARTMAN-Okay, fine, Mephistopheles, maybe too esoteric, or old, or whatever, but how did Eric Cartman get left off exactly? I had him third! ! After all the shit he’s done and tried to do, all just to prove that he could?!?! He fed someone their parents, ’cause they embarrassed him! He tried to restart the Third Reich after he watched “Passion of the Christ”, and almost did it! He’s was willing to restart the Civil war to win a reenactment! He’s start multiple world wars to win a bet! He went to the Supreme Court in an effort to prove leprechauns were real, just to humiliate his friend! And these are the minor things he’s done! How did this get overlooked?

    8. RUMPELSTILTSKIN There weren’t a lot of fairy tale characters at all, which I found surprising. I would’ve thought at least one? And Rumpelstiltskin. Can’t trust him, alchemist, wizard, shows up out of nowhere, and will perform miracle, for your unborn baby. For as in, “In exchange of” and you don’t know who he is, or why, or what he plans to do with the guy. Hell, part of it, is the fact that no one knows his name! You have to guess it? Who guesses that name without knowing. How is that even a thing? So many questions, and he’s evil in a weird way?

    9. ARCHIE BUNKER-Yeah, I stand by it. For what he represents, Archie is the villain. Everybody’s trying to make their day, the world a little nicer and a little better, and here’s this bigot, hypocrite out there, who’s metaphorically standing in the way of progress. And yeah, I counted importance in literature as well, and that put him over-the-top for me.

    16. ROTWANG-I didn’t expect to see him, but he’s the mad scientist villain from “Metropolis” the Fritz Lang one, I mean, sure, Frankenstein’s a big one, but the more influential villain mad scientist is Rotwang, in terms of looks and aesthetics and the fact that, Victor Frankenstein, is a good guy who made a bad decision or two, Rotwang is the evil mad scientist.

    17. CHARLES FOSTER KANE-There’s a lot of lives he hurt, and that’s not even counting the damage his newspapers probably did. Creating yellow journalism, just because he could.

    20 QUEEN OF HEARTS-How many “LOTR”, “G.O.T”, C.S. LEWIS villains, and off with your head bitch doesn’t make it? No Lewis Carroll, at all?

    23. EVE HARRINGTON-“All About Eve”, that little upstart annoying girl, who’s so nice and loves your work and greatly admires you, and will do everything to STEAL YOUR JOB! We all know an Eve, that’s not just an actors’ thing.

    26. MEDEA-Her husband said he’d leave her, so she killed and COOKED HER KIDS and FED THEM TO HER HUSBAND, just to get revenge on him!!!!!!!!!!!

    27. SHYLOCK-My highest ranked Shakespeare character who didn’t show up. Money lender, wants a pound of flesh, if he doesn’t get his money, all because he couldn’t get over being spat on. because of his race. His thirst for revenge and hubris cost him everything, including his faith. Who asks for a pound of flesh for a loan?

    28. HARRY LIME-Ah, another ORSON WELLES character missing on the list. Sells diluted penicillin to children’s hospital on the black market, and he’s so convincing, you almost take his side!

    Alright that was 11, okay, thoughts on the list:

    THE JOKER, DARTH VADER, FREDDY KRUEGER-I thought all three were too high, and I was really shocked Freddy Kreuger was that high. I mean, top comic villain, and top horror villain, okay, they were mine too, but that’s high for them.

    LEX LUTHOR- I still stand by it, that I don’t think Luthor is a good villain, at all. And Batman, beat him and the Joker up at one time? God, why doesn’t Superman just kill him? I really don’t know which one’s stupider, Luthor, for not giving in, and realizing Superman’s Superman or Superman for letting him live! UGH!

    SCAR-Seriously, again with “The Lion King”?! (Sigh) How is he 12th and Claudius, in the ’70s!? Yeah, I didn’t have Scar, anywhere on my ballot; didn’t even consider him, really. I don’t get how you guys think so highly of that one, and all the Disney villains that originated in other mediums first? No Evil Queen from “Snow White”, no “Evil Stepmother” from “Cinderella”!?!? That archetype of a villain, predates “Cinderella”, the stranger comes into your home and replaces your parent, and then takes over?! That’s horrifying if she’s a nice stepmother, much less an evil one.

    DR. DOOM-Really?!?!?! Oh-kay, I’m- I-, look I might not like Lex Luthor, but I take Superman seriously enough to care that his arch-villain, is so, beneath him, maybe Dr. Doom’s better in the other things, but I have never been able to take “Fantastic Four” seriously, any version. Even, the old comics, from what I remember hearing about them, they seemed like a really bad sitcom, like if “Perfect Strangers” were superheroes or something. “Can four superheroes share an apartment without driving each other crazy” kinda thing. Maybe he’s a real threat outside of that, sure, but…- (Shrugs) maybe he’s better when given better material, but it never dawned on me to consider him.

    MAGNETO- You know, i don’t think he’s a villain; I think he’s an antagonist. I mean,-, no actually, he’s the perfect example of an antagonist. Him and Xavier are two people out for the same, but with different methods, he’s the pacifist, who works through peaceful protests and means, and Magneto’s like, “Here, I can move your bridge!” Try fucking with me! He’s a literal antagonist, doing things to cause a stir and get peoples attention, so he can get equal rights; be treated fairly. We got these power, we should take these rights; I don’t think that’s villainy; I wouldn’t count him as a villain. .

    ALIEN-You guys mentioned every insect and being that he was like, except the one, that was the reason, I didn’t include him, he’s a ghost, essentially. Story-wise, the first “Alien” was a haunted house story to me, and the alien, was the role of the ghost, essentially, so,- I had a difficult time putting him on the list, ’cause I then, felt like I should’ve put a ghost character on the list, and I didn’t find a specific for that.

    ANNIE WILKES-I had given up thinking that she would be on the list, so happy to see her.

    HANS GRUBER-Danny Ocean, but evil? (Sigh) Look, the “Die Hard” franchise, has never been about the villain to me. He is a great villain, sure, way too high on this list, but it says it in the title, “DIE HARD”, the franchise is about, putting John McClain in more and more impossible to survive situations, and seeing him, somehow survive it, while taking out the bad guys. It’s not how cool the bad guy is, it’s about what the bad guy manages to do and pull off, and the crazy f-ed up situations that they put McClain in, and how he manages to survive them. That, and, no, I don’t think “Die Hard” is the best in the franchise; to me it’s “Die Hard 2…” way more action, way more fun, less stupid Paul Gleason, slowing the movie down to a crawl of stupidity, so, I don’t really get Gruber being so high. The banter’s cool and fun, but,… sorry, I really don’t see how Gruber is such a great villain.

    1. #1: NO ONE is going to “GANG” UP on you. Not here, we all have differing opinions. This is not, nor will it EVER be a 4chan like atmosphere.

      #2: Where myself, DJ, and a few of the other hosts and commentors disagree, and almost dismiss your opinions, is when you completely dismiss any other version of a character. Specifically Lex Luthor. You say the zucker-eisenberg version is the best…. have you given any of the other versions a fair chance at impressing you? When I edited the ep, I put in Clancy Brown, John Shea, and Gene Hackman, because those are the ones that make great Luthors’ in my mind. Eisenberg is nowhere near their level of evil in his performance.

      #3 Archie Bunker is a product character of the times… I’ve said this already on one of the other episode posts. I agree he is a bigot, but what he is saying is not villainous… It’s arrogance, and stubbornness in not willing to allow the change to happen. If you think MURDERERS and RAPISTS are LESS EVIL or VILLAINOUS than Archie….. yikes!

      That’s all I have to say about that.

      1. I don’t know if I agree that Archie Bunker is simply a product of his times. The purpose of All in the Family wasn’t to dismiss his bigotry but rather show the flaws but through a more comedic lens. As I stated on the podcast and here I don’t agree with the notion that a villain should be listed based on their actions but rather their quality of a character.

      2. In terms of literary importance, yes I rank Archie higher. It that arrogance and stubborness that is villainous, it’s the stopping of progress. I didn’t judge it, just on the acts alone, I thought there were other factors, I didn’t just, consider the body count.

        I was being facetious, with “Ganging up” I know, you’re not ganging up on me. in a singular progression literally.

        I’ve seen all three of those Luthors, I hated Hackman’s I thought it was,- well, I hated that movie long before he showed up, but then, I saw how goofy and cartoonish he was, and i was really drifting at that point. I’m not as familiar with Clancy Brown, what little I saw of him in those later Batman/Superman series, I didn’t have an emotional connection to either but, that might be me- and… I met John Shea once, nice guy, great actor, I loved “Lois & Clark…” as a kid, I remembered him being on the show, if you told me his character name was Marty Johnson, or something like that, I wouldn’t notice the difference. I always got the sense at best, that he’s, A, bad guy, and they kept trying to elevate him to “The” bad guy, and I never bought it. I distinctly remember changing the channel, after I turned on “Lois & Clark” and seeing John Shea, in this purple villain suit and showing it off to some girl, and I just, “Oh, why is he still here, and what stupid thing is he doing now?” That was the moment I stopped taking the show seriously as a kid. It never dawned on me that he was supposed to be the big bad guy, it was always, this obnoxious prick? Just go away! Okay, Eisenberg’s was the one, where I thought, “Okay, scary guy, got it now!”, sure, but I don’t think it’s the performances or the interpretation; I don’t think he works in the “Superman” universe, as a character and a construct, I always end up thinking, “This guy makes no sense in the world of Superman, especially where they keep putting him?” I can’t get pass that. Even the positives I had for Eisenberg’s performance one of my thoughts about him was, how he’d make a much better villain for Batman; they have a lot in common. He’s no Joker, but rich industrialist, vigilante, obsessive, apparently a tragic past in some versions, that sounds like Batman. He should move to Gotham and zone in on Wayne’s empire; that would make sense. In Metropolis, I never know why I’m supposed to, really fear this idiot; he always just feels like an extra annoying gnat of a character to me. He might do a lot of shit and in some versions, really might be more vicious, but in a literary sense, which is how I measured this, I can’t get pass the notion that there’s just something really not right, with how he’s-, I’m not sure he even should be in this universe, much less, as the position he’s in! Maybe it’s only me, and I’m the crazy one, but, it’s every time with me, it feels a little wrong, sometimes more wrong than others but I can’t get pass that.

    2. Well, I did put Eric Cartman three, and he’s from a silly world, so I don’t think it’s just that with Lex Luthor, and-, I was so bufuddled by seeing Dr. Doom, I’m just gonna defer to you guys on that one.And i consider, multiple and several version as well, I was considering all of literature, and how many mediums a character might’ve crossed into and successfully so as well. Nurse Ratched, for instance, is a good book villain and film villain, that counted extra for me, on top of everything else. (Also, I forget who is what, that was unsure on her, but-eh, it’s in the clearer in the book and a little bit, brought up in the movie too, that basically, she’s manipulating a lot of the higher-ups as well as the patients, so…. yeah, she’s- she’s evil. Also, eh, McMurphy doesn’t just choke her in the book. [Uncomfortable laughter dying down.])

      Count Dracula, I had him #2, basically for the same reasons. You want a vampire villain, you go with Dracula. Whether it’s evading Van Helsing, or trying to catch Abbott & Costello. You can literally separate vampire literature into, stuff that go back to Dracula and stuff that doesn’t, that’s how big he is, so no argument from me there.

      Yeah, Mephistopheles, that’s where, “The Deal with the Devil” comes from. He’s not only the Devil, but he’s the devil, who essentially is the one that makes, bad guys in literature. That narrative of, being willing to make that deal, to change yourself entirely, or as-eh, I think Ken Follett said it, in one of his thing, “You’ll climb very high, to have a great fall!” That narrative arc, can describe so many villain, so many heroes and anti-heroes even. If we were doing all of literature, to me, after I thought about everybody, that was the clear-cut, hook to me, where his influence is so important and widespread. In “Faust”, he’s a literal character and everybody’s made fun of that conceit as well, even Homer Simpson, sold his soul for a box of donuts, but, that Faustian narrative, the influence of that, that put him over-the-top for me. (Shrugs) Maybe next time?

      I’m glad somebody else had Eve Harrington. Another one, I’m shocked missed, was-eh-, maybe some didn’t think he was a villain, but considering how high “The Shield” was on the TV list for some although I don’t think it’s that subjective, Vic Mackey; I thought was easily gonna make this list. I’m not even the biggest fan of “The Shield”, but he was Top 40 for me. That’s the other snub that really surprised me a bit.

      I know, the nature of the process, but, that’s why you have fun arguing and debating it to me. I’m shocked that such a high percentage had Joker number one, for instance, to me, I get to claim recency and comic book bias. It’s like when I’m watching an Eagles game, and I’m yelling at the refs. “That wasn’t a facemask, the guy clearly grabbed his hand, and shoved it in his own face! What the hell Ref!?!?”

    3. I had both Mephistopheles and Eric Cartman on my list and was surprised not to see either of them make the list, ESPECIALLY Mephistopheles who I had ranked very highly.

      1. Yea, I would be careful about assuming that multiple people didn’t vote for MANY characters that didn’t make the list. Again, as stated in the episode, it takes an overwhelming majority to vote for a character in many instances for it to make the final list.

        1. Alright fair point. That does make me wonder what characters got tons of votes and missed the list entirely…..

          1. I personally skipped a lot of the literary because one I don’t remember them being all that great in my mind and two I prefer pop culture / tv / film / comics and a lot of that in terms of the villains.

          2. Well, I don’t think I had a literary character who only existed in classic literature, I gave preference to characters who crossed over into other mediums successfully and of course into pop culture in general, but a lot, if not all of the popular tropes and narratives and characters we’re familiar with, usually came from an earlier piece of literature of some kind. We may not even realize it, but I looked for a lot of names where, a trope began, and than how was it expanded on. That’s not a literary bias per se, it’s just that the written word and the stage had a couple thousand years to create these idea, and TV/Movies/Comics/etc. came later. There’s still some inventions from these newer mediums, and some are better and more powerful, but, you know, to me, that’s where the majority of literature is, so I leaned that way.

      1. Okay. Well-eh, Mephistopheles, is sometimes recognized as another name for the Devil, but him in particular, in this case, is a reference the story of Faust. It’s originally a German folkloric story, but the modern version was by Christopher Marlowe, he was Shakespeare’s biggest rival, and this is what he’s most know for. And basically, Faust is well-to-do, but bored with his sophisticated life, and decides to sell his soul to Mephistopheles, in exchange for, embracing, more hedonistic feelings, and in the process, he loses everything he ever had and thought he didn’t care about. It’s a very common story arc, and it was started here.

        Rotwang, is the first mad scientist, who’s actually mad. Builds a female robot to hypnotize the citizens and start a Civil War, among other things. Seek out the film “Metropolis” from 1926 to see more of him. Charles Foster Kane, is, “Citizen Kane”, that’s his full name. Eve Harrington is from the movie “All About Eve”, (Although I think that based on a story first) she’s the prototype, nice person underling who’s secretly plotting to take away your spot; in this case, it was in the theater world, but when somebody says somebody is All About Eve, they mean that she might seem like she’s pleasant and trying to help and support and wants advice and all, but don’t trust that person. Medea is an Ancient Greek play by, Euripides, she’s also, sometimes considered a religious character, but the play is where I know her from, and her husband, Jason, severely underestimated how angered she’d be. Shylock is from Shakespeare’s “The Merchant of Venice”; it’s technically a comedy, but it’s got a lot of dark undertones; I recommend the film with Al Pacino playing him, and Harry Lime is from “The Third Man”, another great old film worth looking up. Orson Welles, intimidating his friend in the ferris wheel, (Quoting) “Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love – they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.” He’s so evil, he even gets the girl after he’s caught and killed, Great film. Worth looking up.

        Hope that helps (Shrugs). I wish you had heard of them beforehand, although there were a couple that made the list that I didn’t know about, so-eh, we all have a blindspot or two, here and there.

    4. Yes MEPHISTOPHELES should have been on here some place. Easily top 20 character in general let alone villain.

    5. Well, Lex really isn’t a “regular ol’ guy”, he’s literally the smartest human being on the planet (and several others). A charismatic and strong leader on one had, and an egotistical, obsessive and petty man on the other.
      For the most part, Luthor is jealous of Superman and his power. He often speaks of his fear that one day, the world will worship Superman like a god as he fixes everyone’s problems forever. Humanity will stagnate and become useless under the heel of the Kryptonian. Lex hates useless things above all else. While he doesn’t hate the idea of the world worshipping HIM, he would at least lead the world as a human being and not an alien.

      Besides, it’s very likely threats like Doomsday or Brainiac wouldn’t have arrived if it weren’t for him. (Well, maybe not, but like Batman, you can argue the hero/villain arms race also happens with Superman) And sometimes, Doomsday can be controlled. Braniac can be bargained with if you know how to deal with him, and Lex is intelligent enough to know exactly what to say.

      Overall, Luthor is the mental match to Superman’s physical powers, and he just can’t stand the idea of someone out there he can’t buy, bargain, kill or destroy.

      As for why Superman doesn’t just throw him in jail or kill him, most of the time Luthor’s hands are kept legally clean of any nefarious schemes he comes up with. He’s rich enough to hire the best lawyers in the world, remember. He can also just instantly pay any bail set by a judge, no matter the cost. And then he’ll buy the courthouse and jail to boot. And Superman is opposed to killing despite what Zack Snyder thinks.

  2. (Shakes head and sighs) Okay, since I’m one of the ones who didn’t have their number one choice selected, before I get ganged up on for not liking Lex Luthor or Hans Gruber, I’m gonna defend my choices here. My Top Ten on my ballot that didn’t make it.

    1. MEPHISTOPHELES-from “Dr. Faust” and he should be number one…. Okay, so to me, the X-factor in this list was literature. There wasn’t a genre that we were limited to, everything was considered, but since all literature, it’s importance in literature, as a whole, topped everything else. So I thought about, how most western literature can be traced, in some way back to Shakespeare. All the kinds, all the kinds of conflicts there are, all the narratives and plot structures, all, however many story arcs there are and everything else is a variation, and all that, but one, doesn’t. The one major western narrative, that wasn’t created or mastered by Shakespeare, is the story of the deal with the devil. The modern version of that was Christopher Marlowe, and the Faustus folklore dates earlier, but when I think back on villains, in terms of literature, the villain narrative is this one. You’re good, you make a deal, you shouldn’t have, and you will end up losing it all,in your hubris, in an effort to gain it all. So many, great characters, including many great villains, Walter White, Charles Foster Kane, who also missed this list, WTF?!, Edmund Hyde to some extent, etc. several others I’m sure, several heroes I’m sure have made this bad deal, There may not be a physical devil in many of those stories, but the arc of selling your soul, is the same narrative. If you have a tragic villain character, who could’ve or used to be the good guy, but isn’t, you can blame Mephistopheles for that, for damning them into this. I think somebody, in one of the earlier podcasts mentioned him as a joke that he might show up, but he should’ve showed up! There’s more than a couple villains on this list that owe him a debt of gratitude, for basically creating their narrative arc. He should’ve showed up and he should’ve been number one, to me.

    3. ERIC CARTMAN-Okay, fine, Mephistopheles, maybe too esoteric, or old, or whatever, but how did Eric Cartman get left off exactly? I had him third! ! After all the shit he’s done and tried to do, all just to prove that he could?!?! He fed someone their parents, ’cause they embarrassed him! He tried to restart the Third Reich after he watched “Passion of the Christ”, and almost did it! He’s was willing to restart the Civil war to win a reenactment! He’s start multiple world wars to win a bet! He went to the Supreme Court in an effort to prove leprechauns were real, just to humiliate his friend! And these are the minor things he’s done! How did this get overlooked?

    8. RUMPELSTILTSKIN There weren’t a lot of fairy tale characters at all, which I found surprising. I would’ve thought at least one? And Rumpelstiltskin. Can’t trust him, alchemist, wizard, shows up out of nowhere, and will perform miracle, for your unborn baby. For as in, “In exchange of” and you don’t know who he is, or why, or what he plans to do with the guy. Hell, part of it, is the fact that no one knows his name! You have to guess it? Who guesses that name without knowing. How is that even a thing? So many questions, and he’s evil in a weird way?

    9. ARCHIE BUNKER-Yeah, I stand by it. For what he represents, Archie is the villain. Everybody’s trying to make their day, the world a little nicer and a little better, and here’s this bigot, hypocrite out there, who’s metaphorically standing in the way of progress. And yeah, I counted importance in literature as well, and that put him over-the-top for me.

    16. ROTWANG-I didn’t expect to see him, but he’s the mad scientist villain from “Metropolis” the Fritz Lang one, I mean, sure, Frankenstein’s a big one, but the more influential villain mad scientist is Rotwang, in terms of looks and aesthetics and the fact that, Victor Frankenstein, is a good guy who made a bad decision or two, Rotwang is the evil mad scientist.

    17. CHARLES FOSTER KANE-There’s a lot of lives he hurt, and that’s not even counting the damage his newspapers probably did. Creating yellow journalism, just because he could.

    20 QUEEN OF HEARTS-How many “LOTR”, “G.O.T”, C.S. LEWIS villains, and off with your head bitch doesn’t make it? No Lewis Carroll, at all?

    23. EVE HARRINGTON-“All About Eve”, that little upstart annoying girl, who’s so nice and loves your work and greatly admires you, and will do everything to STEAL YOUR JOB! We all know an Eve, that’s not just an actors’ thing.

    26. MEDEA-Her husband said he’d leave her, so she killed and COOKED HER KIDS and FED THEM TO HER HUSBAND, just to get revenge on him!!!!!!!!!!!

    27. SHYLOCK-My highest ranked Shakespeare character who didn’t show up. Money lender, wants a pound of flesh, if he doesn’t get his money, all because he couldn’t get over being spat on. because of his race. His thirst for revenge and hubris cost him everything, including his faith. Who asks for a pound of flesh for a loan?

    28. HARRY LIME-Ah, another ORSON WELLES character missing on the list. Sells diluted penicillin to children’s hospital on the black market, and he’s so convincing, you almost take his side!

    Alright that was 11, okay, thoughts on the list:

    THE JOKER, DARTH VADER, FREDDY KRUEGER-I thought all three were too high, and I was really shocked Freddy Kreuger was that high. I mean, top comic villain, and top horror villain, okay, they were mine too, but that’s high for them.

    LEX LUTHOR- I still stand by it, that I don’t think Luthor is a good villain, at all. And Batman, beat him and the Joker up at one time? God, why doesn’t Superman just kill him? I really don’t know which one’s stupider, Luthor, for not giving in, and realizing Superman’s Superman or Superman for letting him live! UGH!

    SCAR-Seriously, again with “The Lion King”?! (Sigh) How is he 12th and Claudius, in the ’70s!? Yeah, I didn’t have Scar, anywhere on my ballot; didn’t even consider him, really. I don’t get how you guys think so highly of that one, and all the Disney villains that originated in other mediums first? No Evil Queen from “Snow White”, no “Evil Stepmother” from “Cinderella”!?!? That archetype of a villain, predates “Cinderella”, the stranger comes into your home and replaces your parent, and then takes over?! That’s horrifying if she’s a nice stepmother, much less an evil one.

    DR. DOOM-Really?!?!?! Oh-kay, I’m- I-, look I might not like Lex Luthor, but I take Superman seriously enough to care that his arch-villain, is so, beneath him, maybe Dr. Doom’s better in the other things, but I have never been able to take “Fantastic Four” seriously, any version. Even, the old comics, from what I remember hearing about them, they seemed like a really bad sitcom, like if “Perfect Strangers” were superheroes or something. “Can four superheroes share an apartment without driving each other crazy” kinda thing. Maybe he’s a real threat outside of that, sure, but…- (Shrugs) maybe he’s better when given better material, but it never dawned on me to consider him.

    MAGNETO- You know, i don’t think he’s a villain; I think he’s an antagonist. I mean,-, no actually, he’s the perfect example of an antagonist. Him and Xavier are two people out for the same, but with different methods, he’s the pacifist, who works through peaceful protests and means, and Magneto’s like, “Here, I can move your bridge!” Try fucking with me! He’s a literal antagonist, doing things to cause a stir and get peoples attention, so he can get equal rights; be treated fairly. We got these power, we should take these rights; I don’t think that’s villainy; I wouldn’t count him as a villain. .

    ALIEN-You guys mentioned every insect and being that he was like, except the one, that was the reason, I didn’t include him, he’s a ghost, essentially. Story-wise, the first “Alien” was a haunted house story to me, and the alien, was the role of the ghost, essentially, so,- I had a difficult time putting him on the list, ’cause I then, felt like I should’ve put a ghost character on the list, and I didn’t find a specific for that.

    ANNIE WILKES-I had given up thinking that she would be on the list, so happy to see her.

    HANS GRUBER-Danny Ocean, but evil? (Sigh) Look, the “Die Hard” franchise, has never been about the villain to me. He is a great villain, sure, way too high on this list, but it says it in the title, “DIE HARD”, the franchise is about, putting John McClain in more and more impossible to survive situations, and seeing him, somehow survive it, while taking out the bad guys. It’s not how cool the bad guy is, it’s about what the bad guy manages to do and pull off, and the crazy f-ed up situations that they put McClain in, and how he manages to survive them. That, and, no, I don’t think “Die Hard” is the best in the franchise; to me it’s “Die Hard 2…” way more action, way more fun, less stupid Paul Gleason, slowing the movie down to a crawl of stupidity, so, I don’t really get Gruber being so high. The banter’s cool and fun, but,… sorry, I really don’t see how Gruber is such a great villain.

    1. #1: NO ONE is going to “GANG” UP on you. Not here, we all have differing opinions. This is not, nor will it EVER be a 4chan like atmosphere.

      #2: Where myself, DJ, and a few of the other hosts and commentors disagree, and almost dismiss your opinions, is when you completely dismiss any other version of a character. Specifically Lex Luthor. You say the zucker-eisenberg version is the best…. have you given any of the other versions a fair chance at impressing you? When I edited the ep, I put in Clancy Brown, John Shea, and Gene Hackman, because those are the ones that make great Luthors’ in my mind. Eisenberg is nowhere near their level of evil in his performance.

      #3 Archie Bunker is a product character of the times… I’ve said this already on one of the other episode posts. I agree he is a bigot, but what he is saying is not villainous… It’s arrogance, and stubbornness in not willing to allow the change to happen. If you think MURDERERS and RAPISTS are LESS EVIL or VILLAINOUS than Archie….. yikes!

      That’s all I have to say about that.

      1. I don’t know if I agree that Archie Bunker is simply a product of his times. The purpose of All in the Family wasn’t to dismiss his bigotry but rather show the flaws but through a more comedic lens. As I stated on the podcast and here I don’t agree with the notion that a villain should be listed based on their actions but rather their quality of a character.

        1. What I mean by him being a product of the times is that… He said what he wanted no matter what. He was an opinionated asshat, but back then people rolled with the punches he was throwing.

          Archie is from a time when not every single person was offended by a damn pushpin being thrown on the ground, or the color of a damn coffee cup.

      2. In terms of literary importance, yes I rank Archie higher. It that arrogance and stubborness that is villainous, it’s the stopping of progress. I didn’t judge it, just on the acts alone, I thought there were other factors, I didn’t just, consider the body count.

        I was being facetious, with “Ganging up” I know, you’re not ganging up on me. in a singular progression literally.

        I’ve seen all three of those Luthors, I hated Hackman’s I thought it was,- well, I hated that movie long before he showed up, but then, I saw how goofy and cartoonish he was, and i was really drifting at that point. I’m not as familiar with Clancy Brown, what little I saw of him in those later Batman/Superman series, I didn’t have an emotional connection to either but, that might be me- and… I met John Shea once, nice guy, great actor, I loved “Lois & Clark…” as a kid, I remembered him being on the show, if you told me his character name was Marty Johnson, or something like that, I wouldn’t notice the difference. I always got the sense at best, that he’s, A, bad guy, and they kept trying to elevate him to “The” bad guy, and I never bought it. I distinctly remember changing the channel, after I turned on “Lois & Clark” and seeing John Shea, in this purple villain suit and showing it off to some girl, and I just, “Oh, why is he still here, and what stupid thing is he doing now?” That was the moment I stopped taking the show seriously as a kid. It never dawned on me that he was supposed to be the big bad guy, it was always, this obnoxious prick? Just go away! Okay, Eisenberg’s was the one, where I thought, “Okay, scary guy, got it now!”, sure, but I don’t think it’s the performances or the interpretation; I don’t think he works in the “Superman” universe, as a character and a construct, I always end up thinking, “This guy makes no sense in the world of Superman, especially where they keep putting him?” I can’t get pass that. Even the positives I had for Eisenberg’s performance one of my thoughts about him was, how he’d make a much better villain for Batman; they have a lot in common. He’s no Joker, but rich industrialist, vigilante, obsessive, apparently a tragic past in some versions, that sounds like Batman. He should move to Gotham and zone in on Wayne’s empire; that would make sense. In Metropolis, I never know why I’m supposed to, really fear this idiot; he always just feels like an extra annoying gnat of a character to me. He might do a lot of shit and in some versions, really might be more vicious, but in a literary sense, which is how I measured this, I can’t get pass the notion that there’s just something really not right, with how he’s-, I’m not sure he even should be in this universe, much less, as the position he’s in! Maybe it’s only me, and I’m the crazy one, but, it’s every time with me, it feels a little wrong, sometimes more wrong than others but I can’t get pass that.

    2. Well I 100% agree with Eric Cartman needing to be on here someplace. Again the challenge being that many may not see him as a villain in the most basic since,or consider since of his strong comedic usage. He was high on my list but alas didn’t make it.

      Eve Harrington was also on my list as All About Eve is one of my favorite films. I’m not surprised she didn’t make it as I’m sure many still have not see the film and I know some that did and put lists in weren’t major fans of it.

      Scar – as said on the podcast I wasn’t a fan of his placement either. And didn’t make my top 100 list.

      MEPHISTOPHELES – honestly didn’t make my list mostly due to my lack of exposure to the character. Seeing that he ranked so high for you I’ll make sure to look into him more deeply as its peaked my interest.

      It’s the nature of this process that the list won’t satisfy everyone or anyone completely. Why we look out to many different people who share varied opinions then are own, so its not simply what the people on the panel speaking want.

      Also considering this list or any top 100 the topic often is so wide in scope that characters may fall through that deserve to be there in one persons eyes or another. Also while some who voted have more of a comic book base for their list some are coming for a more cinematic base of knowledge, or a variety of both.

      Important to remember that when a character like a Lex Luthor, Joker, or Dracula make the list that they are making it not based on the version I, you, or anyone specifically knows best. It’s 100% find to disagree with their placement, and there are legitimate arguments to make that they are listed too high or perhaps do not belong at all. Minus a handful of characters that’s pretty much the case for everyone.

      I get that Lex Luthor and Doctor Doom come from silly worlds that may not have the gravitas of a biblical epic but having a history as long and varied as they do does matter in some form. Yes there are bad versions of those characters as demonstrated in film or other media but there are also phenomenal versions as well. I placed Dracula number one on my list because when he’s used to his full potential he’s an amazing villain with longing impact. But you also get movies like Dracula Untold or Dracula 2000.

      1. Well, I did put Eric Cartman three, and he’s from a silly world, so I don’t think it’s just that with Lex Luthor, and-, I was so bufuddled by seeing Dr. Doom, I’m just gonna defer to you guys on that one.And i consider, multiple and several version as well, I was considering all of literature, and how many mediums a character might’ve crossed into and successfully so as well. Nurse Ratched, for instance, is a good book villain and film villain, that counted extra for me, on top of everything else. (Also, I forget who is what, that was unsure on her, but-eh, it’s in the clearer in the book and a little bit, brought up in the movie too, that basically, she’s manipulating a lot of the higher-ups as well as the patients, so…. yeah, she’s- she’s evil. Also, eh, McMurphy doesn’t just choke her in the book. [Uncomfortable laughter dying down.])

        Count Dracula, I had him #2, basically for the same reasons. You want a vampire villain, you go with Dracula. Whether it’s evading Van Helsing, or trying to catch Abbott & Costello. You can literally separate vampire literature into, stuff that go back to Dracula and stuff that doesn’t, that’s how big he is, so no argument from me there.

        Yeah, Mephistopheles, that’s where, “The Deal with the Devil” comes from. He’s not only the Devil, but he’s the devil, who essentially is the one that makes, bad guys in literature. That narrative of, being willing to make that deal, to change yourself entirely, or as-eh, I think Ken Follett said it, in one of his thing, “You’ll climb very high, to have a great fall!” That narrative arc, can describe so many villain, so many heroes and anti-heroes even. If we were doing all of literature, to me, after I thought about everybody, that was the clear-cut, hook to me, where his influence is so important and widespread. In “Faust”, he’s a literal character and everybody’s made fun of that conceit as well, even Homer Simpson, sold his soul for a box of donuts, but, that Faustian narrative, the influence of that, that put him over-the-top for me. (Shrugs) Maybe next time?

        I’m glad somebody else had Eve Harrington. Another one, I’m shocked missed, was-eh-, maybe some didn’t think he was a villain, but considering how high “The Shield” was on the TV list for some although I don’t think it’s that subjective, Vic Mackey; I thought was easily gonna make this list. I’m not even the biggest fan of “The Shield”, but he was Top 40 for me. That’s the other snub that really surprised me a bit.

        I know, the nature of the process, but, that’s why you have fun arguing and debating it to me. I’m shocked that such a high percentage had Joker number one, for instance, to me, I get to claim recency and comic book bias. It’s like when I’m watching an Eagles game, and I’m yelling at the refs. “That wasn’t a facemask, the guy clearly grabbed his hand, and shoved it in his own face! What the hell Ref!?!?”

    3. I had both Mephistopheles and Eric Cartman on my list and was surprised not to see either of them make the list, ESPECIALLY Mephistopheles who I had ranked very highly.

        1. Yea, I would be careful about assuming that multiple people didn’t vote for MANY characters that didn’t make the list. Again, as stated in the episode, it takes an overwhelming majority to vote for a character in many instances for it to make the final list.

          1. Alright fair point. That does make me wonder what characters got tons of votes and missed the list entirely…..

          2. I personally skipped a lot of the literary because one I don’t remember them being all that great in my mind and two I prefer pop culture / tv / film / comics and a lot of that in terms of the villains.

          3. Well, I don’t think I had a literary character who only existed in classic literature, I gave preference to characters who crossed over into other mediums successfully and of course into pop culture in general, but a lot, if not all of the popular tropes and narratives and characters we’re familiar with, usually came from an earlier piece of literature of some kind. We may not even realize it, but I looked for a lot of names where, a trope began, and than how was it expanded on. That’s not a literary bias per se, it’s just that the written word and the stage had a couple thousand years to create these idea, and TV/Movies/Comics/etc. came later. There’s still some inventions from these newer mediums, and some are better and more powerful, but, you know, to me, that’s where the majority of literature is, so I leaned that way.

      1. Okay. Well-eh, Mephistopheles, is sometimes recognized as another name for the Devil, but him in particular, in this case, is a reference the story of Faust. It’s originally a German folkloric story, but the modern version was by Christopher Marlowe, he was Shakespeare’s biggest rival, and this is what he’s most know for. And basically, Faust is well-to-do, but bored with his sophisticated life, and decides to sell his soul to Mephistopheles, in exchange for, embracing, more hedonistic feelings, and in the process, he loses everything he ever had and thought he didn’t care about. It’s a very common story arc, and it was started here.

        Rotwang, is the first mad scientist, who’s actually mad. Builds a female robot to hypnotize the citizens and start a Civil War, among other things. Seek out the film “Metropolis” from 1926 to see more of him. Charles Foster Kane, is, “Citizen Kane”, that’s his full name. Eve Harrington is from the movie “All About Eve”, (Although I think that based on a story first) she’s the prototype, nice person underling who’s secretly plotting to take away your spot; in this case, it was in the theater world, but when somebody says somebody is All About Eve, they mean that she might seem like she’s pleasant and trying to help and support and wants advice and all, but don’t trust that person. Medea is an Ancient Greek play by, Euripides, she’s also, sometimes considered a religious character, but the play is where I know her from, and her husband, Jason, severely underestimated how angered she’d be. Shylock is from Shakespeare’s “The Merchant of Venice”; it’s technically a comedy, but it’s got a lot of dark undertones; I recommend the film with Al Pacino playing him, and Harry Lime is from “The Third Man”, another great old film worth looking up. Orson Welles, intimidating his friend in the ferris wheel, (Quoting) “Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love – they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.” He’s so evil, he even gets the girl after he’s caught and killed, Great film. Worth looking up.

        Hope that helps (Shrugs). I wish you had heard of them beforehand, although there were a couple that made the list that I didn’t know about, so-eh, we all have a blindspot or two, here and there.

    4. Yes MEPHISTOPHELES should have been on here some place. Easily top 20 character in general let alone villain.

    5. Well, Lex really isn’t a “regular ol’ guy”, he’s literally the smartest human being on the planet (and several others). A charismatic and strong leader on one had, and an egotistical, obsessive and petty man on the other.
      For the most part, Luthor is jealous of Superman and his power. He often speaks of his fear that one day, the world will worship Superman like a god as he fixes everyone’s problems forever. Humanity will stagnate and become useless under the heel of the Kryptonian. Lex hates useless things above all else. While he doesn’t hate the idea of the world worshipping HIM, he would at least lead the world as a human being and not an alien.

      Besides, it’s very likely threats like Doomsday or Brainiac wouldn’t have arrived if it weren’t for him. (Well, maybe not, but like Batman, you can argue the hero/villain arms race also happens with Superman) And sometimes, Doomsday can be controlled. Braniac can be bargained with if you know how to deal with him, and Lex is intelligent enough to know exactly what to say.

      Overall, Luthor is the mental match to Superman’s physical powers, and he just can’t stand the idea of someone out there he can’t buy, bargain, kill or destroy.

      As for why Superman doesn’t just throw him in jail or kill him, most of the time Luthor’s hands are kept legally clean of any nefarious schemes he comes up with. He’s rich enough to hire the best lawyers in the world, remember. He can also just instantly pay any bail set by a judge, no matter the cost. And then he’ll buy the courthouse and jail to boot. And Superman is opposed to killing despite what Zack Snyder thinks.

      1. He’s smarter? He’s never seemed smart to me, (Unpredictable, in the right hands, but not smart) but even if he was, what good is being the mental match to Superman? Mental match, to Sherlock Holmes or Batman even, I can get behind, but Superman; he’s not a superhero, who needs a mental match to him. This would make sense, if Superman, was some kind of false prophet role, but this is clear-cut, that no, he’s, literally, Superman. The evidence is in, he is powerful, and while he’s here, humanity, essentially is saved. And he himself should be enough evidence that humanity wouldn’t become stagnant, the fact that he’s still fighting Superman, like he could actually win. He should be ecstatic that Superman doesn’t just kill him, and frankly I’m on Snyder’s side on this one. (Which isn’t that Superman’s not opposed to killing, it’s that he does everything possible to avoid it, and only kills when no other option is left, but yeah, he does all this shit and still bends the system to be alive and try again; yeah, break his goddamn neck and move on, Metropolis would be better off for it. Superman’s just being stupid by keeping him alive.) His schemes feel more like a crazy idea I’d expect from Daffy Duck, not the smartest person alive, and Daffy would probably have the same motivation, just being annoyed that someone’s got more attention and is better than him.

  3. I would have had no problem at all have Mephistopheles on this list, considering we had so many literary characters on the list. I chalk it up to just being lost in the shuffle to be honest.

    There also seemed to be a pretty large recency bias with characters in my opinion. Overall though, the Top 100 had some great picks, with the bottom 50 being the most fun since that is where you were going to get those cult favorites and outliers.

    As far as Archie Bunker goes, can you call bigotry and being a misogynist villainous, of course you can! It’s the ultimate evil that we sadly face day in and day out. Killing people in dreams, turning to the Dark Side, and sucking blood is nothing compared to blind hate and intolerance.

    Eric Cartman is the cartoon version of Archie Bunker in many ways, but I think the fact that he’s entertaining hides how truly despicable he truly is. People look past it and forget that he’s a true villain.

    1. Yea like the debate regarding Magneto. Don’t know if you would consider him a villain but he’s also not really a hero. Not really an antihero either though because he is straight up evil at times.

  4. I would have had no problem at all have Mephistopheles on this list, considering we had so many literary characters on the list. I chalk it up to just being lost in the shuffle to be honest.

    There also seemed to be a pretty large recency bias with characters in my opinion. Overall though, the Top 100 had some great picks, with the bottom 50 being the most fun since that is where you were going to get those cult favorites and outliers.

    As far as Archie Bunker goes, can you call bigotry and being a misogynist villainous, of course you can! It’s the ultimate evil that we sadly face day in and day out. Killing people in dreams, turning to the Dark Side, and sucking blood is nothing compared to blind hate and intolerance.

    Eric Cartman is the cartoon version of Archie Bunker in many ways, but I think the fact that he’s entertaining hides how truly despicable he truly is. People look past it and forget that he’s a true villain.

    1. By that logic with Archie he should have been #1 then, and J.R. Ewing #2! LOL I’m not trying to argue with you, and I agree with what you said here.

      1. It’s a debate, not an argument. People just have different opinions about what a real villain happens to be, and these lists should be pseudo-civil debates ;)

        Reflecting on the list, you could say that many of the more human characters like Bunker and Ewing could have been near the top, but the fact that you have iconic, pop culture, touchstone characters, those were the ones that were always going to be near the top. Pop culture is always going to take precedent over socially immoral characters.

        1. Yea like the debate regarding Magneto. Don’t know if you would consider him a villain but he’s also not really a hero. Not really an antihero either though because he is straight up evil at times.

  5. So correct me if I’m wrong but three Star Wars characters made the list? Not bad. There are characters better than Maul that deserved to make it but I get why he ranked over them.

    Joker being number one is not too surprising. He was a definite for the top three. Are you posting the entire list anywhere? I’d like to be able to see it in one full entity if possible.

    1. I don’t think we have ever posted any of the Top 100 lists on the site. Reason being is we want people to LISTEN and HEAR the reasons WHY a character or whatever is where it is. It’s one of the things we started when we set out to destroy IGN’s top 100 animated series list. As they made you click through 100 pages to see the entire thing.

      That being said I guess a post with 2 pages bottom 50 and top 50 could be made. However I am not sure if that will be done.

  6. So correct me if I’m wrong but three Star Wars characters made the list? Not bad. There are characters better than Maul that deserved to make it but I get why he ranked over them.

    Joker being number one is not too surprising. He was a definite for the top three. Are you posting the entire list anywhere? I’d like to be able to see it in one full entity if possible.

    1. I don’t think we have ever posted any of the Top 100 lists on the site. Reason being is we want people to LISTEN and HEAR the reasons WHY a character or whatever is where it is. It’s one of the things we started when we set out to destroy IGN’s top 100 animated series list. As they made you click through 100 pages to see the entire thing.

      That being said I guess a post with 2 pages bottom 50 and top 50 could be made. However I am not sure if that will be done.

  7. The only one out of the top 25 I had much of an issue with is Scar. No way is he strong enough character to make it that high. Great voice performance sure but the characters he is inspired by should be ranked higher.

    1. Scar murdered his brother, made his nephew think he was the one that did it before going after him AND then destroyed his kingdom all in the name of power. He was beyond evil. If Scar was a human being, he would be a candidate for a game of thrones villain

      1. Or a character in Shakespeare which he was modeled after and because of that should not be ranked higher than the origin in which he was based.

        1. Sometimes that is true but something that’s based on something else IS still capable of surpassing it or being executed Better

  8. No super major surprises in the top 25 minus a few here or there. Little disappointed there weren’t many video game villains as some deserved to make the top 100 somewhere.

  9. No super major surprises in the top 25 minus a few here or there. Little disappointed there weren’t many video game villains as some deserved to make the top 100 somewhere.

  10. Or a character in Shakespeare which he was modeled after and because of that should not be ranked higher than the origin in which he was based.

    1. Sometimes that is true but something that’s based on something else IS still capable of surpassing it or being executed Better

  11. Another great top 100 list. Enjoyed listening to each week. Kudos gentlemen.

  12. Another great top 100 list. Enjoyed listening to each week. Kudos gentlemen.

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